Safety Car Discussion

We need to sort out what happens for safety cars

Here's my proposal. Please critique it and offer up suggestions.

Safety cars are requested by parties involved or effected by an incident.
The request is confirmed by the person who is in first place, and they call the safety car.

 - If the leader is past the pit lane entry, or does not feel that they can safely enter the pits, they call
"SAFETY CAR NO PITS"
This will indicate to players that any pit stops taken under safety car will NOT count towards a mandatory pit stop count. Cars will then carry on around the track at 80km/h (50mph) until all parties are back together.
Restart is then called on the next major straight at the dictation of the leader.

 - If the leader is not past the pit lane entry, and feel that they can safely enter the pits, they call 
"SAFETY CAR PITS OPEN"
This will indicate to players that the FIRST pit stop taken under safety car will count towards a mandatory pit stop count. Cars will then carry on around the track at 80km/h (50mph) until all parties are back together.
Restart is then called on the next major straight at the dictation of the leader.

Thoughts/suggestions.

Keep it civil.

In real life the safety car comes out of pit exit and picks the lead car up on that lap, if drivers manage to pit and then re join ahead of where they were at the current time of the safety being called then its fair game and happens every weekend there is a race and safety car involved.

It all depends on where those drivers can enter the pits and there position on track when a safety car is called, quite often you see a guy who is half a lap behind the leader and a safety car is called, they jump straight into the pits then go flat out to catch the safety car and gain 10 positions in doing so cause the lead cars behind the safety car at the back straight and has to wait until he and the rest of them get around to the pit entry to pit as there stuck behind the safety car, its just the way it rolls and the way it is, and I think the way it should be. There is winners and loosers in the safety car calling all the time, and stratergy, with pit stops and getting the compulsory one out of the way during a safety car, that's racing.

To me don't make it complicated, if there is a safety car then that's the way it is, get your pit stop done if you want, if you end up ahead of a couple cars in the process its a bonus, if not well your only a second or two behind anyway on the restart.

I like the idea of being able to pit under safety car but those who cause the safety car must restart from the back

SG1 RAZOR wrote:In real life the safety car comes out of pit exit and picks the lead car up on that lap, if drivers manage to pit and then re join ahead of where they were at the current time of the safety being called then its fair game and happens every weekend there is a race and safety car involved.

It all depends on where those drivers can enter the pits and there position on track when a safety car is called, quite often you see a guy who is half a lap behind the leader and a safety car is called, they jump straight into the pits then go flat out to catch the safety car and gain 10 positions in doing so cause the lead cars behind the safety car at the back straight and has to wait until he and the rest of them get around to the pit entry to pit as there stuck behind the safety car, its just the way it rolls and the way it is, and I think the way it should be. There is winners and loosers in the safety car calling all the time, and stratergy, with pit stops and getting the compulsory one out of the way during a safety car, that's racing.

To me don't make it complicated, if there is a safety car then that's the way it is, get your pit stop done if you want, if you end up ahead of a couple cars in the process its a bonus, if not well your only a second or two behind anyway on the restart.

While I agree with this, there is one point i'd like to raise, and it's something Stingray touched on in lobby chat post race.

The damaged cars involved in causing the safety car should always start from the back of the safety car chain, regardless of where they end up after the repairs. In real life they don't get to even race, so it's a massive bonus in this that they get to continue.

What hillcrest said

Dektra wrote:

SG1 RAZOR wrote:In real life the safety car comes out of pit exit and picks the lead car up on that lap, if drivers manage to pit and then re join ahead of where they were at the current time of the safety being called then its fair game and happens every weekend there is a race and safety car involved.

It all depends on where those drivers can enter the pits and there position on track when a safety car is called, quite often you see a guy who is half a lap behind the leader and a safety car is called, they jump straight into the pits then go flat out to catch the safety car and gain 10 positions in doing so cause the lead cars behind the safety car at the back straight and has to wait until he and the rest of them get around to the pit entry to pit as there stuck behind the safety car, its just the way it rolls and the way it is, and I think the way it should be. There is winners and loosers in the safety car calling all the time, and stratergy, with pit stops and getting the compulsory one out of the way during a safety car, that's racing.

To me don't make it complicated, if there is a safety car then that's the way it is, get your pit stop done if you want, if you end up ahead of a couple cars in the process its a bonus, if not well your only a second or two behind anyway on the restart.

While I agree with this, there is one point i'd like to raise, and it's something Stingray touched on in lobby chat post race.

The damaged cars involved in causing the safety car should always start from the back of the safety car chain, regardless of where they end up after the repairs. In real life they don't get to even race, so it's a massive bonus in this that they get to continue.

What hillcrest said

Hmm not really, there is quite often cars involved in a safety incident that only sustained a bit of damage and was due to no fault of there own, for example  1 corner before pit entry an accident happens between 2 drivers but a third or even fourth driver a caught up in it with wrong place wrong time, these drivers were currently running from 10 th position back, A safety car is called they scramble and make the pits, change tyres rip some panels of or a mirror and put some tape on the car and of they go, they pick up the safety car as the safety car passes pit entry on its first time round, all those in front of him now pit leaving him in first position, now why penalise him because he was caught up in the safety car incident to start with that wasnt his fault.

It happens every week this same scenario that there is an accident involving a safety car, and people make gains and some don't, but not all those involved in a safety car incident are to blame and be punished for it, now if the incident happened at just after pit exit and a safety car is called then there most likely is no gains to be made and if anything a loss for those cars involved as they limp all the way back around to pit entry.

That's racing.

9 times out of 10 the ones who are involved in the crash causing the safety car end up last anyway because of the all or nothing forza 5 damage model and having to limp back to the pits where others are generally still racing. Under a safety car the person disadvantaged most is the lead driver who effectively acts as the safety car. As the lead car instantly becomes the safety car and they don't have the chance to speed into the pits then out and rejoin behind the safety car. Also generally speaking those who are damaged in an accident will spend more time in the pits for repairs than other cars who are just doing tire and fuel stops generally leaving them at the back

Of course we could always have someone not involved in the series sitting in a spare lobby spot in a car to be used as a safety car but who is going to want to give up their night to be a safety car? Which is ridiculous

or, just have no safety car. Those involved in the incident simply submit a replay and ask for the stewards to rule. Yes the guy who is the innocent bystander is disadvantaged, but that's racing. It would mean more replay reviews and who has time to do that... of cause if the mater is readdressed on the track, then that would be the best situation. There is always someone who is disadvantaged, that's racing.

oh this reminds me of Safety Car Stu... roll over, that was funny.

(just because my name is in blue does not mean this is the opinion of Admin, I am just offering up my 2 cents as a member)

No safety car is an option.

hillcrest wrote:I like the idea of being able to pit under safety car but those who cause the safety car must restart from the back

When safety car is called the leader should stay at full pace untill they reach the pit entry or start/finish line (depending if the leader pits or not). Like in the case of last nights safety car, if the leader is just about to (pass pit entry but it's too late to make it) or has just passed the pit entry, then he still runs full pace untill he reaches the pit entry or arrives at the start/finish line. The next car to inherit the lead after the pit exit starts running at 80ks for a full lap untill they arrive at the start finish straight and call go go go or something to restart the race.

No body gets shafted, nobody can manipulate the use of safety car, and crashers get a second chance to continue from the back (probably the main reason we do safety car).

Props to [somebody] and his brain for this idea.

sempeR wrote:No safety car is an option.

When safety car is called the leader should stay at full pace untill they reach the pit entry or start/finish line (depending if the leader pits or not). Like in the case of last nights safety car, if the leader is just about to (pass pit entry but it's too late to make it) or has just passed the pit entry, then he still runs full pace untill he reaches the pit entry or arrives at the start/finish line. The next car to inherit the lead after the pit exit starts running at 80ks for a full lap untill they arrive at the start finish straight and call go go go or something to restart the race.

No body gets shafted, nobody can manipulate the use of safety car, and crashers get a second chance to continue from the back (probably the main reason we do safety car).

Props to [somebody] and his brain for this idea.

+ 1

F5 safety car is not to remove hazards from the track or to extract broken bodies from burning cars. They are to allow crashed cars to continue to race with the pack and shouldn't be a means to gain track position.

mystery wrote:

sempeR wrote:No safety car is an option.

When safety car is called the leader should stay at full pace untill they reach the pit entry or start/finish line (depending if the leader pits or not). Like in the case of last nights safety car, if the leader is just about to (pass pit entry but it's too late to make it) or has just passed the pit entry, then he still runs full pace untill he reaches the pit entry or arrives at the start/finish line. The next car to inherit the lead after the pit exit starts running at 80ks for a full lap untill they arrive at the start finish straight and call go go go or something to restart the race.

No body gets shafted, nobody can manipulate the use of safety car, and crashers get a second chance to continue from the back (probably the main reason we do safety car).

Props to [somebody] and his brain for this idea.

+ 1

F5 safety car is not to remove hazards from the track or to extract broken bodies from burning cars. They are to allow crashed cars to continue to race with the pack and shouldn't be a means to gain track position.

Makes sense, how about full course yellow when safety car is called and accepted until the lead car goes into pit entry for the first time for those that pit on first lap while under full course yellow and will exit pits under safety car with those that don't pit become the new lead driver if that happens then full safety car for them from the start finish line(if you passed pit entry and choose not to pit and come onto start finish straight) as this is normally on most tracks in the middle of the pits and those tracks that are different could be from pit exit, until the now lead car (as it could be different if someone doesn't pit or just did before a safety car was called) makes final corner coming onto the start finish straight for the second time, (either once via pitting or not on first lap full course yellow and safety car from second time around and should pick up speed to racing speed with no overtaking until you your(not the lead drivers car) car has crossed the start finish line.

This would still keep some pit strategy going under safety car incidents and would give more than 1 full lap for anyone to catch up, if they havnt caught up by the second pass of pit lane/start finish line then racing should continue with out them being in formation under safety car.

This would make it interesting to pitt or not with start finish line being the safey car line and if you did pit will you still be in the same position to those that didn offering drivers choices and decisions during racing that could have possible gains and losses with there safety car strategy taken.

Also maybe no safety car can be called in the last 2 full lap of a race at least, to allow a minimum of 1 full lap of racing before race finishes.

Pitting under safety car should count as a mandatory pit stop if that rule is in effect.

I think safety cars can and should enhance the racing experience for all OZFM members if we all know whats going on and is used right, just adds more depth to our racing and strategy's along the way. Do you pit early or wait just in case of a safety car ect ect.

Yeah, i forgot to add, no passing after safety car is called.

Keeping the no safety car with mandatory pit stops option in mind here. Mandatory pits were introduced into the last 2 rounds of the v8 series in sympathy to anyone who sustained damage and had to pit. After everyone pitted, the guys who had to pit because of damage werent as disadvantaged. Think of it as half a free kick and better than being the only guy to pit and ending up twice as far behind.

sempeR wrote:No safety car is an option.

hillcrest wrote:I like the idea of being able to pit under safety car but those who cause the safety car must restart from the back

When safety car is called the leader should stay at full pace untill they reach the pit entry or start/finish line (depending if the leader pits or not). Like in the case of last nights safety car, if the leader is just about to (pass pit entry but it's too late to make it) or has just passed the pit entry, then he still runs full pace untill he reaches the pit entry or arrives at the start/finish line. The next car to inherit the lead after the pit exit starts running at 80ks for a full lap untill they arrive at the start finish straight and call go go go or something to restart the race.

No body gets shafted, nobody can manipulate the use of safety car, and crashers get a second chance to continue from the back (probably the main reason we do safety car).

Props to [somebody] and his brain for this idea.

That somebody would be me yo! This keeps it all really simple, yellow flag (no passing) but still racing speed until you either pit or pass the pit entrance, then safety car speed behind the leader upon pit exit or after the start line if you didn't pit.

Original Reapr wrote:

sempeR wrote:No safety car is an option.

hillcrest wrote:I like the idea of being able to pit under safety car but those who cause the safety car must restart from the back

When safety car is called the leader should stay at full pace untill they reach the pit entry or start/finish line (depending if the leader pits or not). Like in the case of last nights safety car, if the leader is just about to (pass pit entry but it's too late to make it) or has just passed the pit entry, then he still runs full pace untill he reaches the pit entry or arrives at the start/finish line. The next car to inherit the lead after the pit exit starts running at 80ks for a full lap untill they arrive at the start finish straight and call go go go or something to restart the race.

No body gets shafted, nobody can manipulate the use of safety car, and crashers get a second chance to continue from the back (probably the main reason we do safety car).

Props to [somebody] and his brain for this idea.

That somebody would be me yo! This keeps it all really simple, yellow flag (no passing) but still racing speed until you either pit or pass the pit entrance, then safety car speed behind the leader upon pit exit or after the start line if you didn't pit.

This ^^ is the best option.
Getting an advantage from being involved in an accident is retarded.

Also, a note of at least 3 cars must be involved to have a safety car called - this stops the potential of people causing a stack and turning someone around just to get a safety car.

I think, You guys come up with the rules regarding the safety car and we (admin/mods) check it over and we include it in the CoC for optional use by series organisers. What I mean by optional is, there may be (not saying there is) a series that the use of safety cars will not suit. We include it in the CoC then a series organiser will need to state in the series info if the safety car rule will or will not apply.

Between yourselves, nominate someone to write it in a format that will suit the inclusion in the CoC.

So, what has to happen to be able to call safety car? 50% engine damage? Any 100% body damage? 3 or more cars involved???