Roll off delays, restarts, rolling starts

Arckon wrote:

OctarineDream wrote:

TEEROY 34 wrote:
Bloody roll off gave TDI Evo a 15 second headstart, mongrel haha

Yeah, I think that's why we didn't end up doing the roll-off and just attempted to be polite.

Chris (OD)

Not sure why, I was under the impression when the second delay start was run, that based on the say a 16 car field, car 16 would have 15sec subtracted from time, car 15: 14 sec etc, so as the results were fair. I know it is a bit of a pain, and a quick pic of the lobby before starting the countdown easily gives you the grid order.
Why was I under this impression from previous series?

I'm pretty sure we haven't done that before, but I could be wrong. I know it sounds weird, but it gives an advantage to anyone starting up the back as it's (often) easy to catch a car, but much harder to pass it. So, let's say I'm in 4th with some slower cars in front of me due to reverse grid. You are in 5th and since I'm being slowed down, you catch up easily. Now, you only have to be within one second of me to beat me.
The delay just slows down the first few corners so that people get warm tyres, settled nerves and so on before bunches start to form. On a really short race however (3-5mins perhaps), the delay can make more of a difference.

Chris (OD)

TDI Evo didnt race the first race though, and he was quick, so he had 15 seconds on me before i started.
This format worked well in 8 lobby grids no doubt.
i think some kind of single file through first corner (ie rolling start) may be more suitable now with large lobbies,

One for Admin to discuss imo

TEEROY 34 wrote:i think some kind of single file through first corner (ie rolling start) may be more suitable now with large lobbies

or a little self control?

there no more reverse grids scheduled for the remainer of the series. yippy!

well yes but this is after the self control bits dont work,and you have used the 2 restarts
ie in stead of a roll off work a single file restart, just like the re starts in the ARSE series, single file count down

I actually like the reverse grid format to a certain extent, but only if we can make it work as drivers.

Rolling starts could add a different dimension to race starts and a full lap rolling before racing, could be fun starts to races, certain guidelines would need to be implemented like no overtaking car in front of you untill crossing start/finish line, bunching and grouping ect ect, phew be a bit to get sorted but definatley worth considering for a sprint race or a one of race start in a series race at some stage.

No probs OD, I was very uncertain in the post as you could tell, probably something that was just talked about once, and what you said makes sense.

Sleuth I agree and disagree about the reverse grids.
I imagine it is great fun for the fast guys working there way through the field, I have at times enjoyed the reverse grid and scored more points than I really deserved because of it. On the other hand it does cause more incidents and not just on the first corner.
Plus myself being more on the slower side I sometimes feel I am holding people up or in the way. Without the reverse grid I am still having good racing with the blokes in the field that are a similar level as me and there just seems to be less incidents and damage, plus people are truly scoring the points they deserve.
It has always been contraversial when they run it in the real V8 series for very similar reasons, and the majority of drivers there dislike the concept as well.
Definately positives and negatives for reverse grids, I think I would prefer to see them in the less serious events though, rather than our Premier Events like the V8's.

Dazza4610 wrote:

feralcobra wrote:hay dazza i just noticed i dont have any points for race one i did qualify 13th and finished race one 13th then 12th in race 2

Sorry, I must have missed that in the results post for lobby 1.

I think it has all updated now.

cool thanks dazza

the rolling restarts in the AusCAR series worked very well.
held a certain gear until the countdown so everyone maintained same speed so no contact, no need to roll around an entire lap.
3 2 1 go go go!
theres no problem with reverse grid, its the time delay of roll off start now with bigger lobby for those in last positions.
i think in this scenario it was only a problem coz TDI Evo didnt run the first race and we had a fast guy starting front of the field with the other fast blokes back of pack.

NO biggy, i dont want to revise our process fellas, just food for thought for anyone running a series that will use roll offs after 2 failed restarts.
Calmer heads avoid the entire thing

Yep, I agree Teeroy. Couple of things with the AusCars though; they were locked tunes, so everyone had the same speed in the same gear, and the tracks only had left hand turns.

In the case of above maybe he should have pulled over and taken last place as he missed qualy and race 1. Maybe that could be written in to the rules somewhere.

Like you say mate, No biggy, but worth looking in to.

After Race 1 and the reverse grid at Atlanta I changed Round 4 to no reverse grids. Round 5 was only one race anyway, so it did not need changing. Round 3, this round, I thought with a 15 lapper people might take a bit of car on the first lap.

We learn as we go, and I agree 16 player lobbies we need to make changes to the way series are setup. Overall, I am really enjoying coming 8th now in stead of last ... lol

Hey guys,

I just split this and put it into the General Discussion area cos I think it's interesting and shouldn't be buried away inside the V8 bit.

Chris (OD)

TEEROY 34 wrote:
i think in this scenario it was only a problem coz TDI Evo didnt run the first race and we had a fast guy starting front of the field with the other fast blokes back of pack.

Not fast enough... hehe Definately setup a good challenge though.

Re changing rules, Hinde sight is 20 / 20, next time someone waltz in after the first race should wait until all cars have left the starting line in a reverse grid...

The 1 sec gap start for race 2 in lobby 3 was ONLY used because we failed to get away cleanly on 2 mass starts. It doesn't happen all that often, but we do have first corner/lap incidents that wreck peoples races far too often.

The issue of Evo being out front is irrelevant because any other fast driver could have had a bad qualifying and bad race 1 and been on the front for race 2 as well.
Agreed we could have asked Evo to move aside at the start since he was a late arrival, but we didn't. Not a big deal either way

The underlying issue is lots of cars being in close company and/or guys being too ambitious trying to make up positions on the first lap while everyone is running on cold tyres and just getting into their rhythm. Specially so at the first corner!

When drivers make errors of judgement in these circumstances we end up with "accidents" and other cars can easily become involved because of the closeness of numbers of cars.

Sure, we can have a backup plan like delayed or rolling starts for the times when it goes wrong.

But since we're responsible drivers who want clean racing, the solution to the real problem should be simple:

**************
EVERY DRIVER, must be conscious of their position in the race field and allow racing room for other drivers around them.

At the first corner:
- remember ALL the cars are very close together, everyone is on cold tyres and the adrenaline is pumping.

- be prepared to brake much earlier than normal to allow for others ahead and around you as the field compresses at the corner.

- don't expect to take your normal racing line, allow room for other cars ahead and around you. Be prepared to take a tight or wide line depending on which side of the track you approach the corner.

- If a driver ahead makes a mistake, hold your line or go to the outside of the track to avoid him, so not to crash into a car beside you.

- do NOT attempt to make up places by over-aggressive driving.

- contact causing another car to lose momentum or race places MUST be redressed.
*************

damn skippy!

i think the 1 second roll off is more like a penalty to the whole grid for not being calm through the first couple of corners just leave it as it is 0.2

Agree Stu, definatley a penalty to the whole grid, for example those in the front rows of grid can cause the carnage behind them with early braking bunching up the field and indifferent racing lines, then after two failed re start attempts they get a 1 second delayed start to help there cause....Doesnt make much sense.

The faster drivers behind are generally much more careful of there car on reverse grid re starts from what I have noticed and know that any damage what so ever affects the V8's noticabley.

I think reverse grid has a place in series events but would like to see it in a rolling start scenario with a full lap rolling and then as the lead driver crosses start finish line its go go go, but with no overtaking of any cars untill you have passed start finish line, just like they do in real life.

Would be interested in trying this out and do think it would work and spread the field enough to lessen accidents on reverse grid starts, penaltys could and should apply in series events for overtaking cars at any point in the rolling start stage till passed start finish line, its easy and could be implemented with out to much trouble I think, lots of positive to reverse grid order with rolling starts....

If rolling starts are considered and to be implemented into series events in the future I would be intersted in doing up a format for it and a set of guide lines for these type of starts with the help of others who would like to see it work and used in series races.

Last night in A600 we had carnage on the first race.

In the second race I mandated NO restarts, damage your car and deal with it. Not a single person hit anyone else, it certainly worked well for us.

15 cars btw

Sleuth 101 wrote:If rolling starts are considered and to be implemented into series events in the future I would be intersted in doing up a format for it and a set of guide lines for these type of starts with the help of others who would like to see it work and used in series races.

I think it could work well Sleuth, it seemed ok in the AusCars as Teeroy mentioned. Worth looking in to.

I do think people need to take care on the first lap, and this would only be an option after maybe 2 failed attempts.

It would be good if we could save the race that failed, and people coupld be held accountable for causing the restart, but I can not see any way to police it.

NoRecoil wrote:
Drivers:
NO Restarts and NO Safety Cars- You will most likely have to pit at this distance so a damaged car wont be the end of your race.

All drivers are reminded Look after your car and others around you, especially in the reverse grid races. Incidents will happen from time to time, if your car is damaged dont be a bad sport about it, do what you can to finish the race - a DNF due to a rage quit will always result in 0 (zero) points for that race.

Poor sportsman like manoeuvres or driving can and will be penalised - Race as clean as possible and aim to keep at least 2 wheels on the track at all time, cutting the final corners lap after lap will not be tolerated.

If your are involved in an accident ensure you warn the drivers behind you, especially if your car is blocking the racing line or anywhere on the track - saying "oh shit" is not a warning, let them know what side of the track is clear "Stay LEFT!" and then rejoin when safe to do so.

Attempt to redress any unfair advantages When Safe to Do So, ie stay right out of the way on the next straight - stopping you car on the racing line will only cause more chaos.

The 1 second roll off was always designed/intended to be a penalty after 3 restarts - if the drivers in the room cant get it right after 3 attempts then the whole room would be penalised for not using common sense for the cars ahead of you.

Whittie260 wrote: I mandated NO restarts, damage your car and deal with it. Not a single person hit anyone else, it certainly worked well for us.

15 cars btw

+1 that's how it should be all the time, deal with it!

Have to agree with stu & recoil on this one ..

I do like the idea of a rolling start, they could add a slightly different strategy.

Besides - it would stop me from bogging the thing down like I did on the last race

baconterrain wrote:

Whittie260 wrote: I mandated NO restarts, damage your car and deal with it. Not a single person hit anyone else, it certainly worked well for us.

15 cars btw

+1 that's how it should be all the time, deal with it!

Agreed.

Also rolling starts would not necessarily work, Because seeing that the field is still in relatively close proximity to each other, people are still try stupid moves and since there is more speed involved, it would only end up causing more carnage.

Don Stylz wrote:Have to agree with stu & recoil on this one ..

I agree to some extent, but not if I was the one taken out by someone else's inability to drive with in there skills.

If we had NO restarts then at least we could penalize the culprut, that would mean hours of reviewing races. Not something I want to spend my life doing.

Not sure which way I stand on this. Both ways someone wins, and someone looses.

Fair enough dazz, there is always an innocent party in most acco's but these incidents will even its self out by the end of the season or series.

Rolling starts work in theory - but guaranteed you'll always have one overly excitable driver that will get stuck into the bloke in front because they feel the need to stay 1m off there arse in the form up lap.

Rolling starts would need a rule on there own - keep X meters between you and the car in front. Touch the car in front on the form up lap and cop a 30sec penalty to your end race timer. Or similar