'Train The Noob'

Hey,

Don't know if anyone will respond to me on this one

Anyway, just thought as an idea - could we have some experienced players down as 'designated driving instructors'??

So in my case, I'm like at least 3-5 secs off the pace of most people here (per lap). So if I had someone who could help me out by going online and doing practice runs with me every now and then, and giving hints and tips on cornering technique, tuning etc...

I'm thinking that a benefit could be that you'd have new people in the community getting up to speed much quicker, thereby hopefully resulting in people becoming more involved and happy members of the OzFm family..

Just an idea...

iWolfs driving school is now open...
"Experienced Instructors - We teach you how to fail with style"

I can do some laps with you, if you think it'll help.

Maybe a few laps after racing finishes tonight?
Or sometime later in the week.

Lemme know if you're interested.

What assists are you using?

Every assist (apart from braking line) will have a negative effect on you out right speed.

One massive thing that will make your times faster is switching to Manuel with Clutch - Go into the HUD options/controls, then scroll down and you'll find an option to "Switch handbrake and Clutch" - this will make 'A' your clutch button so you can simultaneously press A+B or A+X to shift gears.
You will munch a few gear boxes as you learn.

It also allow flat shifting in a straight line.

Next step from there is rev matching the down shifts - basically its heel and toe braking with your fingers - Simply, you tap the throttle on the down shifts.

Master the Manuel with Clutch then add rev matching on the down shifts and you'll see your times drop.

Takes time to learn and can be rather frustrating to begin with, i started using it in a V8 Supertaxi back in F3 - Id have 20+% gearbox damage and 5% on the engine, form over revving and missing gears, in most races to begin with.

Hope this helps

Had a similar idea for the OZFM university. What it means is getting a great driver, whose play time is more than likely limited by life, to take time deliberately going slow in order to help newbies. Great in theory, but incredibly boring for them in practice. One day they could have a series where a good driver is teamed up with a newbie. They have pit stops and Drivers are changed. Tried this once and I thought it worked pretty well.

PS Good on ya Wolfie for doing this. Anyone who does this is a dead set legand.

Thanks iWolf - that's awesome mate. Thanks very much.

If I'm online tonight when you finish your series racing (I'm not in a series for tonight), then drop me a message on live and we'll party up.

I've started watching the tuning tutorials here on the forums, so hopefully that will help me also.

NoRecoil wrote:What assists are you using?

Every assist (apart from braking line) will have a negative effect on you out right speed.

One massive thing that will make your times faster is switching to Manuel with Clutch - Go into the HUD options/controls, then scroll down and you'll find an option to "Switch handbrake and Clutch" - this will make 'A' your clutch button so you can simultaneously press A+B or A+X to shift gears.
You will munch a few gear boxes as you learn.

It also allow flat shifting in a straight line.

Next step from there is rev matching the down shifts - basically its heel and toe braking with your fingers - Simply, you tap the throttle on the down shifts.

Master the Manuel with Clutch then add rev matching on the down shifts and you'll see your times drop.

Takes time to learn and can be rather frustrating to begin with, i started using it in a V8 Supertaxi back in F3 - Id have 20+% gearbox damage and 5% on the engine, form over revving and missing gears, in most races to begin with.

Hope this helps

Thanks No Recoil - sounds like I need to learn how to do this. I had a quick go this arvo with having the clutch as LB, but wow I struggled. Might need to try different button like you suggested then.

With assists, I've got ABS/STM/TCS all off, but last night when I finished 2nd last in both Four Door races, I was sliding around corners too much I think the sliding was causing me to lose a lot of time. With that I don't know if it's down to my tuning (lack of really because it's pretty much stock), or my entry and exit speed or angles are all wrong...

NoRecoil wrote:

One massive thing that will make your times faster is switching to Manuel with Clutch - Go into the HUD options/controls, then scroll down and you'll find an option to "Switch handbrake and Clutch" - this will make 'A' your clutch button so you can simultaneously press A+B or A+X to shift gears.
You will munch a few gear boxes as you learn.

It also allow flat shifting in a straight line.

A button for clutch = Fail.
LB button for clutch = Win.

In my opinion LB is much easier to use as the clutch than A is.

DodgyAussie wrote:Thanks iWolf - that's awesome mate. Thanks very much.

If I'm online tonight when you finish your series racing (I'm not in a series for tonight), then drop me a message on live and we'll party up.

I've started watching the tuning tutorials here on the forums, so hopefully that will help me also.

No probs, if I'm right this'll help me just as I hope it'll help you.

Be prepared to concentrate on basics first and getting your driving and the car under control.
Then work on getting faster and learning to understand tuning.
Controller changes will help you in the medium term, so it makes sense to do them from the start, as you don't have to re-learn things later. But it will slow down learning the basics, because you're adding other new things to the mix. I'd stay with manual gears + auto clutch, until you're satisfied with your basic driving style and speed. Your choice.

DodgyAussie wrote:

NoRecoil wrote:What assists are you using?

Every assist (apart from braking line) will have a negative effect on you out right speed.

One massive thing that will make your times faster is switching to Manuel with Clutch - Go into the HUD options/controls, then scroll down and you'll find an option to "Switch handbrake and Clutch" - this will make 'A' your clutch button so you can simultaneously press A+B or A+X to shift gears.
You will munch a few gear boxes as you learn.

It also allow flat shifting in a straight line.

Next step from there is rev matching the down shifts - basically its heel and toe braking with your fingers - Simply, you tap the throttle on the down shifts.

Master the Manuel with Clutch then add rev matching on the down shifts and you'll see your times drop.

Takes time to learn and can be rather frustrating to begin with, i started using it in a V8 Supertaxi back in F3 - Id have 20+% gearbox damage and 5% on the engine, form over revving and missing gears, in most races to begin with.

Hope this helps

Thanks No Recoil - sounds like I need to learn how to do this. I had a quick go this arvo with having the clutch as LB, but wow I struggled. Might need to try different button like you suggested then.

With assists, I've got ABS/STM/TCS all off, but last night when I finished 2nd last in both Four Door races, I was sliding around corners too much I think the sliding was causing me to lose a lot of time. With that I don't know if it's down to my tuning (lack of really because it's pretty much stock), or my entry and exit speed or angles are all wrong...

Try diff settings - easy as and will change the car a lot.
Base learning point for Front mounted RWD's.
20 Accel - you can go lower but to low and the car will be a VN commodore and get the One wheel tyre fire on.
1 Decel - Basically this will make it a 1 way diff, easy and predictable for a beginner

JamieWhincup#1 wrote:

NoRecoil wrote:

One massive thing that will make your times faster is switching to Manuel with Clutch - Go into the HUD options/controls, then scroll down and you'll find an option to "Switch handbrake and Clutch" - this will make 'A' your clutch button so you can simultaneously press A+B or A+X to shift gears.
You will munch a few gear boxes as you learn.

It also allow flat shifting in a straight line.

A button for clutch = Fail.
LB button for clutch = Win.

In my opinion LB is much easier to use as the clutch than A is.

I honestly can't brake with my clutch on the bumper. Even when I do handbrake and braking entries when drifting I've usually got all 4 locked

For me it is no clutch.

I drive a manual all the time but to convert a lifetime of left foot clutching to a button press either on the controller or the M$ wheel is a hard ask. I have tried it, and the A for the clutch does work better for me, but it just adds frustration with the damage to the gearbox, etc. And I seem to be slower with the clutch. Yes more practice is needed but happy to be a few seconds off not using it and enjoy the game.

Most of the guys here will not lock down the clutch option in a lobby unless the series rules call for it.

JamieWhincup#1 wrote:

A button for clutch = Fail.
LB button for clutch = Win.

In my opinion LB is much easier to use as the clutch than A is.

You're strange.

This may also help, and yes I realise it is for GT5, but it is the principles your looking at and can be used for all driving games. Plus it is for the short version of Motegi, which is in Forza.

Thanks guys for all your help - appreciate it.

Especially a massive thanks to iWolf and Dektra for helping me out last night with everything!

Envy The Best wrote:

JamieWhincup#1 wrote:

A button for clutch = Fail.
LB button for clutch = Win.

In my opinion LB is much easier to use as the clutch than A is.

You're strange.

LB button is what I use also once you get use to it it's awesome

DodgyAussie wrote:Hey,

Don't know if anyone will respond to me on this one

Anyway, just thought as an idea - could we have some experienced players down as 'designated driving instructors'??

So in my case, I'm like at least 3-5 secs off the pace of most people here (per lap). So if I had someone who could help me out by going online and doing practice runs with me every now and then, and giving hints and tips on cornering technique, tuning etc...

I'm thinking that a benefit could be that you'd have new people in the community getting up to speed much quicker, thereby hopefully resulting in people becoming more involved and happy members of the OzFm family..

Just an idea...

Yo! I'll send you a Friend Request ( I just have to delete someone to make room this arvo) & anytime you see me on & want to ask any questions etc please feel free to do so. I reckon you are well on the way already with the right attitude, the big trick is not to look for speed, but to try to start to minimise time lost through mistakes.

You'd be amazed at how "slow" a really really fast lap can feel sometimes, simply because you have driven the car neatly & it isn't sliding around all over the place dropping multiple tenths of a second as it does so. The trick is SMOOTH SMOOTH SMOOTH, & then to try to gradually attack the course a little more each lap whilst always retaining the smoothness in your driving.

Its so easy to lose 1/2 a second from a big slide or from trying to brake too late, much better to try & keep it as neat & smooth as possible & even if you are a bit too cautious you will only lose maybe a tenth compared to 1/2 a second or more from a slide or braking too late etc...

Combine this with the clutch suggestions others have already mentioned (it will give you a few free tenths in most cars, it varies & you get a bigger benefit on a stock or "road" car than a race car as I think the game already caters for the fact that the race cars have "race" clutches installed) & with the attitude you have I'm sure we will see big improvements from you sooner rather than later

Original Reapr wrote:
Yo! I'll send you a Friend Request ( I just have to delete someone to make room this arvo) & anytime you see me on & want to ask any questions etc please feel free to do so. I reckon you are well on the way already with the right attitude, the big trick is not to look for speed, but to try to start to minimise time lost through mistakes.

You'd be amazed at how "slow" a really really fast lap can feel sometimes, simply because you have driven the car neatly & it isn't sliding around all over the place dropping multiple tenths of a second as it does so. The trick is SMOOTH SMOOTH SMOOTH, & then to try to gradually attack the course a little more each lap whilst always retaining the smoothness in your driving.

Its so easy to lose 1/2 a second from a big slide or from trying to brake too late, much better to try & keep it as neat & smooth as possible & even if you are a bit too cautious you will only lose maybe a tenth compared to 1/2 a second or more from a slide or braking too late etc...

Combine this with the clutch suggestions others have already mentioned (it will give you a few free tenths in most cars, it varies & you get a bigger benefit on a stock or "road" car than a race car as I think the game already caters for the fact that the race cars have "race" clutches installed) & with the attitude you have I'm sure we will see big improvements from you sooner rather than later

Thanks mate for the advice I accepted your FR today, so I'll be sure to have a chat with you when we're both next online.

Yep - totally going to try and learn to be as smooth as possible, because definitely need to work on my cornering . I definitely plan on doing a heap more practice, and I think it helps that I only have to worry about practicing for one series each week (the Four Door), so then I can really try and learn the track and improve along the way.

Hey Dodgy:
Sorry I ran into you in race 1, I'm not sure how much damage was done – but I think it was a fun little race there for a few laps.

The second race was nice to start at the front being so slow in race one. I got away ok and managed to avoid first lap shenanigans, and then it was a reasonable process of practising being passed by most of the field – I am usually trying my best to do allow a much faster driver to pass in a sensible manner...

I think noRecoil would have witnessed a not-so-sensational but somewhat comedic episode of where I repeatedly was getting mostly off the racing line then getting a bit loose and slithering back across the middle and blocking the track... after about a third of a lap I finally managed to get the car far enough away from an apex and slow enough that it was safe to pass.

After we got about lap 10 most people had the positions sorted and were just waiting for the race to finish, or for some people to lag out **


Overall it was not a fun night for me; on the rivals club leaderboards I think I am in the middle or top half so I think my overall driving skill is ok and it is a bit demoralising / demotivating to be 3-5 sec per lap off the pace. Where I think it went wrong for me was:

1. Don't know the track well and didn't run any practise laps in the car on that track
   
2. Car setup might be a bit broken, I did a rough tune originally then tested a calculator tune and can't remember what worked and which one was left on the car.
   
3. I used controller as I didn't have time to get steering wheel out and setup, I usually do all my racing with the wheel.

I'm not trying to make excuses or have a whine but trying to make some kind of analysis that might potentially help. So on to constructive part? Where I suggest what I think I need help with that might also help others..

I reckon my weakness is online racing is when in close racing with others in pressure situations:

1. not a strong / confident passer :
   I notice in other events where I know I am running some pretty competitive lap times it has taken me much longer to get through field than other drivers. Particularly in the recent city car challenge events.
   
2. When under pressure I tend to make mistakes, not necessarily massive brain fade style, but I just haven't enough experience to be able to maintain a certain level of pressure.
   

As a simplification, I think I need a bit of racecraft practise – which is simple enough to just run more races.



** And this gets to my main point of frustration with recent events, I have felt that the second half of the 30-40 minute long “mini-enduro” race #2 has been getting NOT FUN. There is some merit to the practise in a pressure situation, however as most of the times the cars are getting further apart it is like a practise session. In most of these races I have been in, they are mostly sorted after 15-20 minutes and the remaining procession is boring. It might be different with tyre wear on the trans-am so I will give it a chance there...



I know I've gone way off topic, as initially the request is to help get lap times down – however I'm wonder if we could have some additional events that might help beginner / intermediate level drivers improve in race conditions:

I think stock tuning with similar or same cars for even playing field and lots of short races would be good for practising racing in close quarters. More shorter races could cater to practise different tracks, or repeating same track with fresh race could be good to really learn the track better...?


So I am really looking forward to Dektra's Random Races, as this seems like it might hit the mark.

I have been using manual clutch, usually on the A on steering wheel face or mash AB or AX to change on the controller...

It seemed to me when I started with Forza 4 that there was huge lift-off oversteer / instability under breaking if you used manual gears with autoclutch. Seemed strange but using manual clutch made it easier to me (even if the idea of a button clutch is a bit strange)

Cheers SillyBilly77

I remember in that first race we were close and then I of course made a mistake on one of the last laps Oh well, was great fun though.

Maybe you and I should pair up for some regular online racing???

I totally agree with the beginner/stock series idea. Maybe you and I could host a weekly event for drivers who are still learning their racecraft etc (although - I'm not sure if there are many of these drivers on OzFM..).

Anyway, I've been trying to put in a heap of practice for the next Four Door race at Silverstone, so hopefully I'll see 'some' improvement. But then if I don't, the main thing I want to achieve is more consistent lap times, including being more efficient with braking and especially my cornering skills.

I have also been trying to learn how to drive manually, all be it without the clutch.
A bit of a headf*#k after so many years of racing with autos. As Reapr says, slowly does it.

mofosamo wrote:I have also been trying to learn how to drive manually, all be it without the clutch.
A bit of a headf*#k after so many years of racing with autos. As Reapr says, slowly does it.

Cool mate. I'm yet to try the manual w/clutch so far, but as has been suggested, I need to learn basic racecraft first, before I make things too complicated.

I'll send you a FR on live mate.