Rep System Discussions

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Rep System Discussions

Post by Goomf on Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:46 am

You might be onto something there Mitch.  We could have a priority/rep system.  

I'd like to see full rooms where possible and if we have a situation where we have a handful of extras, those with dubious rep get bumped for the night.  It might seem a little harsh but you reap what you sow.

You'd have to be careful though not to get too assuming of people's situations.  What you think might be a poor no show might be easily explained.  People who have quit series mid run also aren't necessarily the bad guys.  I'd prefer people try and work through problems rather than just up and leave because that can essentially leave the problem existing instead of tackled and gotten rid of.

BTW, what happened to the driver rep/licensing system I thought was about when I first came on board?  People would get thumbs up slowly over time by other established drivers to show you're a fair and clean racer.
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Goomf on Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:14 am

Envy The Best wrote:
Goomf wrote:Why the loss of interest on the biggest and best series this place runs?

For a few, perhaps the term "best series ever" doesn't apply to anything regarding the V8's.

Well it should. Razz  Perhaps I should have said most popular.  It certainly gains more interest than any other series on these boards that I've seen.
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by sempeR on Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:47 pm

Ohh yeah, the rep system... What happened to that
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by hillcrest on Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:19 pm

Well in regards to a safety system I know that project cars has a driver rating system (doesn't really help at the moment) but since we may only be having a few more series on FM before Pcars is released is it worth implementing a manual system when we may not even use it in 5 months
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Mitch on Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:16 pm

Yes it definately is: pCars will come out but whats it to say that everyone is getting pCars? It may not tickle the fancy to some gamers and they remain with Forza. Im sure there will still be Forza-based events even after pCars is released....maybe not to the same frequency or overall popularity but still.

But what the rating system on pCars wouldnt factor in is those who wont be commited (even though they signed up to a 8 round series) or poor connection issues. Those dramas are the most complained about in the 5 years of this forums existance. A rep system needs to be introduced.

If so, it needs to be split into catagories including connection, racing conduct, experience ect. Highlighting the attribute is not being unfair, its simply ensuring that our events are being run at the highest possible level of organisation which all members expect from a gaming forum like this. Everything was organised well at the start of the V8s but has kind of died in the ass recently. Is there enough mod'ers or race organisers assisting with the events? (On a seperate issue briefly, is there enough people assisting overall with thenforum? We still have events on the main page that have not been run in weeks and even months..?? F1, Formula Ford, Ruffle Cup died in the ass too..?)

pCars will introduce aspects of racing that console-only gamers have not seen yet, so for pCars events to work, we need to nut this out now or pre-pCars so we are not waiting 30 mins for events to start whilst we wait for someone to reboot consoles and modems or wait for others to peel themselves of other games.
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Goomf on Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:29 pm

One good thing about Pcars is that people can join anytime during practise and qualifying so if you're running late for whatever reason or having connection issues, the event doesn't have to get held up. Of course if you're the one causing probs for everyone else because of your connection and you're already in the game, that could be a problem.
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Dazza4610 on Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:04 am

If you have a look back through the archives you will see many attempts at implementing a rep system of sorts, all of which has failed in some way.  I am not saying that there is not a system that will work, simply we as a community have not found it YET!

So please keep the ideas flowing and let us (admin) know what you want and if it is possible we will make it happen.

Mitch wrote: Is there enough mod'ers or race organisers assisting with the events? (On a seperate issue briefly, is there enough people assisting overall with thenforum? We still have events on the main page that have not been run in weeks and even months..?? F1, Formula Ford, Ruffle Cup died in the ass too..?)

I do believe we have enough, the problem I see is knowing whats going on. Organisers of these events need to let us know the series has died or finished or people have just lost interest.  Stuff said in a lobby chat/facebook/text messaging etc does not get seen on the forum so we don't know, or one of the 3 (currently) active Admins (OD is having a break) that gets wind of a change either doesn't have the time to act on it or forgets to let the other Admins know that may have time to update stuff.  The last one there is our issue I guess, which could be solved by PMs sent to the "Forum Improvement" group which gets all Admins.


2 are fictitious and OD is on leave


OD is on leave




Maybe this needs to be moved out of the V8 Series thread...


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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Dazza4610 on Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:40 am

Not sure if I split this in the right place... gets hard when there is 2 or more things in the same post...

Oh Well, if there was something said in the V8 thread and needs to be here, just repost / quote / or ask me to move the post over here.


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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by TheAlfheim on Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:33 am

While in principle I agree with a reputation system, I have a few thoughts;
- Someone is going to have to (manually) administer it.  Consistently.  An owner.  I suspect this wouldnt be trivial.  Is someone prepared to put their hand up and do this?
- I think there needs to be consideration of two factors; those that are within people's control, and those that are not within their control.  A poor connection might not be under your control - you shouldnt get a bad rep because of it.  A no-show could be under your control, or it might be a life thing that came up.  We need to be sure that the reputations people are getting are deserved.
- There needs to be a mechanism built into the rep system to allow someone to recover back to a good standing.
- When you implement a measure/metric on something, it naturally drives a behaviour.  For example, if this is designed to increase participation, what happens to someone who, mid-season, has a low rep and keeps getting booted?
- At the end of the day, we're here to have fun.  The V8s Room 2 is always a good place to be, as we're all courteous, fair, and easy going (Ive never been in Room 1, so I cant say anything about it).  If we're looking to increase participation, maybe we need to look more to the carrot and not the stick.

(Disclaimer: I wasnt around for the previous rep system, so I dont know anything about it)

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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Dektra on Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:32 am

Alf you seem to have hit the previous problem square in the face. Manual administration of the system, and positive gains to rep.
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Sleuth 101 on Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:24 am

Hi all been awhile but been checking in and having a look at what's going on from time to time,  but could'n help myself and after seeing the drop of drivers yet again in series events and an old topic arise figured I would say what's on my mind, prob get moderated but then imo thats been half the problem.

Its hard to cater for a shortfall in the game ie FM, we all have different connections, different suppliers and then there is just FM servers all causing problems, you pretty much break people up into different classes (lobby's) based on there speed already, maybe not always on there skill level tho..

I remember such a system trying to implemented some time ago, but it was flawed and doomed to fail, and such will be the case in the future imo.. Reason being remembering this is my opinion and have not spoken to any one else but the FUN has been sucked out of the Forum and the game by over moderating in the last 12+months, series events not being finished before another is being organised and spoken about half way through the current series and often being poorly implemented, its to much and becomes a drain, what happened to OZFM'ers being welcome in any groups to just race hang out and enjoy the game itself for what it is..


Any system implemented to class players is just forming a bigger a rift between members again and driving a wedge home but now even more so in your face, plus it becomes time consuming, boring and could get old real quick and really its just trying to make up for some short comings in the game and connections, I understand the frustrations of being "taken out" by events out of a drivers control but it was not so much of an issue 2+ years ago as it has been since and it was around back then but not taken as seriously as it is now and has been for awhile.

So why are drivers not finishing series and or not signing up, FUN friendly competition where all is welcome with no bias towards anyone regardless of who they are, who there mates are and what social or group in general they are from have all been sucked clean out of the forum, free speech where us as members got to express what we thought on this Forum yet always managed to work it and move on with racing again the following week when it got heated has been over moderated, it's stale, and sometimes boring, these type of things kept the forum interesting as we used to feel able to say what we wanted and why, now its not so much and has been that way for awhile..

Sure some like it the way it is, but we are Australians and passionate about the game and the Forum but when you over moderate us and single out those who show there passion on the Forum and speak out then you loose what made the Forum great to begin with, its diversity of those who came who wanted to be a part of the forum, there input was not scrutinized nor talked about negatively behind there backs and it was not judged on person who made the input but by the input itself, it made us feel a part of the Forum, like we belonged and the Forum was us, its members.
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by C RazyStingray on Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:44 pm

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I actually agree with quite a bit of it in regard to the fun not being there any more.

What I don't agree with is the moderating part you mentioned. Not saying you are wrong, just presenting my views on it.
everyone is entitled to an opinion. This is and should always be the case. The moderators don't remove comments because they don't agree with them, don't like the person who posted it etc. The mods only remove and edit posts that break the forum conduct .ie. attacking/insulting other members, racist/sexist remarks, sexual images etc (all of which is actually also against harassment/bullying/discrimination laws). What would potential members - or even worse, Sponsors like the guys at Pagnian - think if we allowed this behaviour?

people can have a heated discussion if they are passionate about something without attacking each other and this would not need moderating. Unfortunately when people have a keyboard in front of them they become internet warriors and can't help themselves.

in regards to some of the words being moderated (goomfs example comes to mind), these are just a list of words that get replaced automatically when typed. Should some of these be removed from that list? Possibly.
My personal opinion on this is that we all started to use this forum because we play forza using the xbox live platform (which is requires parental permission if you are under 18, due to being unable to control what others say over voice chat) However there is a reporting system on xbox live in place to avoid others and report potentially abusive behaviour. Xbox live is also a huge platform and chances are you wont see the offender again. OZFM is not a big enough place for someone feels attacked by another member to stay comfortably and enjoy themselves. I would personally love to see this place have a minimum age (15 or 18 anyone), and allow some more freedom with some of the language we can use, comments we can say. But none of this would change the need to moderate actions and comments which attack others.
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by hillcrest on Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:45 pm

In regards to dwindling sign ups that's a problem that other forums are having as well and I think has more to do with forza than anything else. Forza 5 severely limits the types of series that we are able to run and it makes much more work in the long run for a series to be ran, not to mention we have a limited selection of tracks and forza 5 saw a reduction of multiplayer features.

In regards to series being planned in the midst of another series this is done so that when one series finishes we're not waiting months for the next series. A series will take time to implement and unless it's V8s GTs or a single car series there needs to be development time.

Personally I think a rep system is a good idea but implementing it will always be flawed, also I don't feel like we should be looking to exclude people from a series, this is even more likely to lead to a lower number of people signing up, of course everyone wants a full lobby but sometimes we have too many people for one
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:09 pm

SG1 is right about the fun factor. Another contributing factor may be, this is the 5th forza title and it has less tracks tracks than fm4. People are bored with the same formula, same tracks, less options. Hopefully the next forza and/or project cars will see more poeple get back into it due to more tracks, more race cars, penalties done by the game instead of just by potentially biased organisers (not saying anyone is, just that it would remove the potential). The other thing is that alot of the people not actively racing at the moment have been here a while and need a break. So we need to encourage new members to join. We need to make it a fun comfortable environment. Not an environment where people who cant make every round are told they are not welcome. This is where stingrays comment about moderating come in. If people keep "attacking" each other instead of having heated discussions, then new members wont join. Perhaps make a section of he forum where people can make comments that might not be appropriate for the public eye, and people can post without words being censored and it doesn't get moderated - but put a disclaimer up that you enter at own risk. Also make it so you have to sign in to see that section so public and potential members don't get turned off.

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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Dektra on Fri Oct 24, 2014 6:04 pm

Again a lot of valid points have been brought up the razor, no need for any of that to be moderated,  it was not flaming individuals. It was not harassing, abusing or chastising.only conflict I have with what is raised is the planning of one series while another is on. Being, for quite some time,  the only one organising series on the forum, I had to get one going then start on the next in order to keep the forum busy.
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Mitch on Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:52 pm

Some interesting discussions mentioned above, and all are very valid and I can understand both sides of the coin.

Re: Moderating
I took some time away from the forum until a few months back, so as far as the apparent removal or modifying of comments (that were apparent views) from previous scenarios I wont comment on. BUT as a member, the expectation of a moderators task is to monitor and where applicable, modify or remove comment(s) that are attacking, threatening, or inappropriately sexual. Questions would have to be asked if a member were to propose ideas or voice their opinion in a post, fairly, and it was modified by mod'ers or admin because they did not agree with them. I hope that this is not happening. But being adults, there is no need for discussions to become heated to a point where profanity is being flown from one post to another, or to a point where we need a section to discuss these things away from public view. As Aussies (and Cuzzy Bros), we can be passionate about or motorsport and gaming without having to go behind closed doors. Its an open discussion, all are welcome to it. Turning the "f-bomb" into "firetruck" is fair enough.

Re: Rep System.
Debatable it is, BUT I believe it can be implemented in a way that isn't derogatory to any member in any way, yet creating a minimal work load to implement and maintain.
--"Connection Rating" - this can be implemented in a way to show who is actually more suitable to host a room, rather than saying "two star connections or less are not welcome". Those who are 4 or 5 star rated are preferable to hosting room(s) for events. If there is someone who is considered "1-star", only in that circumstance would we inform the member that their connection may affect the gaming quality in their room, and if problems persists, or racing incidents have occurred, it may be requested to politely abscond so the event can continue for other members. The way this could be implemented (if at all possible) from connection results on various speed test sites. Its not harsh to request so, as poor connection quality is impedes the fun factor of the room, and again in this instance of the V8s, we have had drop outs due to the inability to properly provide the best possible racing atmosphere for members.
--"Gaming Experience" - previously our "forum rank" was based upon how many posts we have made on the forum. I believe we could utilise that rank by our experience (based on how many events the member has participated in). It could be based on series or races individually participated in? Umm could this be left into the members hand to maintain as far as races go? And if or when the member reaches a certain milestone, the member can send a message to mods or admin to "upgrade" their licence? This will make the workloads for admin or mod'ers small, yet provide a better understanding to all members on the members experience on OZFM racing. No matter what licence a member has, they can still participate in any series, but it could aid the newer or inexperienced members, and the more experienced members could actually assist in bringing them up to speed. We could utilise standard state or Cams licence structures - Learners, Provisional, Silver and Gold ect. This could also encourage members to increase their experience, and therefore their participation in OZFM events.
--"Gaming Rep" - I have my doubts whether many would want to go down this path, but its worth a mention. This would be a voting system that replicates Xbox Rep system. Again, once implemented, minimal maintenance would be needed from mod'ers or admin. Mainly it shows ones gaming etiquette, as voted by other members. If members are frustrated by avoidable on-track incidents OR lack of commitment ect, here the members can fairly rate that member.

It is of the best interests of the forum to provide all events with the best possible racing experience. We have a well implemented rules and procedures off the track, but once we are lobbied up and ready for racing, its what ever goes, yet we still whinge and bitch about how you cant pass someone without getting lagged bashed, OR having commitment issues, and wait 20 mins for racing to finally start.

"Stale Forum"
I can see why this view has been mentioned.  And as questioned previously, is the fault of the forum, or a flaw in the current edition of FM? Forza is the most frustrating BUT the forum as a community, not just adminers or race organisers have the ability to get a lot more out of it. As a gaming experience, T10 chose to rush FM5 to shelves for Xbone release rather than giving the Xbox race-gaming community a ripper of a Forza title on the 2013-spec console that they deserved. Hence why a reduced number of circuits, cars, multiplayer options, even tune and paint sharing short falls certainly frustrates and bores the shyte out of everyone here.
ON the same token, this local community is lacking is "casual" or "random" nights - we did do these a while back and it made for a great nights entertainment as we put aside our competitive and perhaps "official" race proceedings, and where someone picked a track, someone else picked a certain car or class, (plenty of "stockies"!!) and we just went for a fun burn around. The "community" feel about this forum is not what it used to be. Utilising Horizon to actively keep the community together is what a healthy injection this place needs. We do a race event on one night, and maybe on Thursdays or Fridays ect we go for that random bash, and enjoy our gaming with our mates.
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by XYvSTUvYX on Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:23 pm

nobody shows up for random racing nights
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Dektra on Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:28 pm

Stu speaks the true
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Mitch on Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:47 pm

Im trying to make a suggestion to increase interest mate. This worked before, but perhaps negativity is what killed it, and not a lack of interest?

Being an open discussion, im hoping you can contribute to the discussion more than that. You may not turn up, but as I mentioned if you read, Horizon 2 is a decent enough rig where we could do that. Since its release, most are on this and are only on FM5 come racing time. Doesnt have to happen every week.


Last edited by Mitch on Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Dektra on Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:52 pm

Uh Mitch. Stus talking about the countless casual events he's organised that has had the usual 5 or 6 turn up, if that.
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by Mitch on Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:08 pm

Yeah that sucks, and never taking anything away from what he has tried to organise in the past.

Not saying my idea is grand, but im just suggesting things that worked years ago when the forum was a fun community. Im not saying it not fun now, but discussions in lobbies is just a bitch fest about how crap everything is. Just bringing ideas to the table so we can enjoy the game once again.

Im enjoying the V8s and having a good run with you all, but there is just a whiff negativity that is bringing everyone down. Doesnt help that T10 didnt bring their best game to the console cos after a year, most are bored shitless.
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Re: Rep System Discussions

Post by CosmicChimera on Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:08 pm

Thought I'd throw in a few thoughts as a fairly new member -

Firstly, and  most importantly, I think this forum, and the efforts of admins, mods and race organisers is great - I love that there is a group of Aussies and Kiwis that is open and welcoming to all who want good clean, serious (and sometimes not so serious) racing on the Xbox. We shouldn't lose sight of the value of this.

Secondly,..there isn't really a secondly Smile
A rating system that works sounds like a good idea, but as an older an less active racer, it would suck if life and family pressures (as in the last two weeks of the V8s for me) meant that I was relegated somehow. I guess I don't understand what a rating system would really do when events already seem to be struggling for numbers.
A rating system that rewarded good participants though, could be cool. Still, players that bounce around giving everyone around them lag rash aren't helpful to the community experience. Maybe there should be two ratings - one for 'racing/conduct/experience/skill' and one for 'connection/lag risk'?

In the end though, I think admins and race organisers need to be given the trust and authority to just step up and kick some people the f* out the door at some point. This community is just too small to operate as a democracy in every situation.

I'll keep doing my best to turn up to the events that I sign up for, and to race clean.
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